Escape 101: An Author Interview with Dan Clements | The Growing Life | Alternative Productivity, Anti-Hacks for Living

How to Take a Sabbatical: An Author Interview with Dan Clements

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Clay

Escape 101, by Dan Clements and Tara Gignac, is as much about boldly creating personal change as it is about escaping our comfort zones. The book is not another over-romanticized travel guide for 20-somethings. It is deeply grounded in reality, was written for everyone from business owners to parents, and provides a step-by-step plan for getting its readers on sabbatical.

Because I enjoyed the e-book so much (it’s also available in print), I’m honored to present this interview with Dan. (Please see this book excerpt and consider joining Dan’s mailing list if you’d like a deeper look). Escape 101 is a book that stands to blow open your reality and show you how to break the rules in all the right ways; I believe this interview provides a taste of that.

Let’s get started . . .

At its core, Escape 101 seems to be more about lifestyle design than anything else. What are some of the more interestingly designed lives you’ve seen?

I’ve met gold prospectors, people who deliver yachts from island to island, surf instructors, and jungle animal workers. We’ve traveled with people who have been on the road for years, people who’ve climbed Everest, people who worked with the sick, the poor and the homeless, and freelance writers and journalists who interview the rich and famous and travel the globe.

The most interesting thing to me, though, is that there are these people living amazing lifestyles just down the street. There’s a guy in the next town over who does voice-over work in his basement. When a script comes in, he gets an email, reads the stuff into a mic, and uploads the .mp3 file. Then he heads to the gym, or hangs with his kids, or whatever.

We live in a ski and cottage area, and there are people running businesses from the chairlift by Blackberry, or by cell phone from their boats. There are ski bums who bartend at night and ski all day, and millionaires who work and play in bands.

The compelling thing about all of them, from the vagabonds to the business gurus, is not what they’re doing. It’s that they wanted to do it, and so they did.

We’ve both had significant experiences at the Mayan ruin site at Tikal, Guatemala. My monumental experience was catching malaria (note: you should never buy shady anti-malaria drugs from street vendors or believe that you’ll get any sleep while camping in a jungle filled with howler monkeys). Would you mind sharing your transformative Tikal experience?

Beyond the whole Indiana Jones-style setting, the place has this…feel to it. It’s difficult to explain. We hiked in before dawn to watch the sun rise from the top of one of the temples, and it was an astonishing experience.

What really had an impact on me, though, was this chance encounter we had there. We met a family who’d pulled their kids out of school, sold everything, and were traveling, spending a month here, a month there. They’d been good corporate soldiers, these folks - just normal, middle-class Americans - and they’d bailed out of all of it. What was so compelling, though, was that they looked like the happiest family I’d ever seen.

They were the ones who explained to me that it wasn’t leaving that was hard. It was thinking about leaving that was challenging – the fears, doubts and anxieties about making a huge life change.

That experience – over a decade ago – would eventually lead to Escape 101. It made me realize that in addition to the logistics of money, work, businesses and kids, people who want to escape need to somehow get the mental side of things figured out. They need to find a way to get to a place of “this is all going to be okay”.

What are some of the top myths that prevent people from taking sabbaticals?

There are many, but the big ones tend to be:

I can’t afford it.
I can’t leave work.
I can’t leave my business.
I can’t do it with kids.

The truth, of course, is that they’re all exactly that: myths. Other people are doing these things all the time.

People tend to have this idea that their circumstances are special, but that they themselves are ordinary. That’s completely backwards. The truth is that most of us face the same challenges and fears, but as individuals, we have this unique and tremendous capacity to do anything we choose to. It’s that shift in focus, from external circumstances to internal belief, that’s a big part of Escape 101.

For me, the most difficult part about going on a Sabbatical is not the leaving, it’s the coming back. I don’t like making difficult logistical decisions about things like housing while away, and I especially don’t like job searching or lining up clients while on Sabbatical. How do you address these problems?

The best thing you can do to ease re-entry – emotionally and logistically – is to give yourself some time. If you take six months off, for example, it’s tempting to plan your return to your “real life” for the last possible day. The best way to cap off an excellent escape, though, is to give yourself a week or two with nothing planned to start wrapping your head around getting back into things, and sorting out those logistics.

I’m also a believer in keeping in touch. I think there’s something to be said for leaving your work behind, but there’s nothing wrong with keeping clients, colleagues and friends up-to-date on what you’re up to. Keeping in touch with your other life makes it easier to re-establish those work and personal connections when you return.

Do you have some kind of muse powering you? Is it necessary to have automated income — a source of income while you’re gone?

It’s not necessary at all. We really haven’t had any automated/passive income in the past – maybe a few bucks. We’re getting to that point now, but all our previous sabbaticals have been traditional career breaks, funded by some savings and a little creativity and determination.

By the time our next trip rolls around, I expect to have a lot more passive income. Ironically, though, I know we won’t need it. It’s not hard to find an escape to fit any budget. It’s a topic we give a lot of time to in the book because it tends to be such a mental hurdle for people.

In Escape 101, you talk about creating a muse to generate automated sabbatical income and devote an entire chapter to maintaining the muse while on sabbatical. I think that for many people, muse creation and remote maintenance are the most unrealistic aspects of The Four Hour Work Week (4HWW). Now that 4HWW craze has hit and spread, do you have any recommendations for muse creation that are sabbatical compatible? What types of businesses do you run?

The majority of my income now comes from book sales, most of which is automated. Those sales are driven almost exclusively online. Tara’s naturopathic practice is a far more traditional business model, but it sustained itself quite well for our last sabbatical.

The 4HWW focuses in part on building a business in order to better your lifestyle. I think that’s absolutely fantastic, and I’d rank Tim’s book as one of the best in recent memory for challenging assumptions about work and lifestyle.

Escape 101 looks at the same outcome – a better life – but via a different route. We’re using dramatic temporary change – a sabbatical – to give you the experience of a better life so that you can see firsthand the value that a great life can deliver. That in turn creates the motivation to make sustained changes afterward.

We all know of people who desperately need to make change, but can’t seem to do it until something comes along that makes it important – the guy who has the heart attack and finally starts to eat better and exercise. The near-death experience that makes you spend more time with your family. A sabbatical is a way of having the same epiphany without the negative catalyst. It’s a great tool to get you to the point of doing what Tim’s talking about.

The business chapter of Escape 101 is about helping business owners who don’t believe their businesses can operate without them. They essentially have no passive income. These people stand to gain the most from a sabbatical because leaving their business will force them to make the transition from owning a job, to running a business that can generate income in their absence. We’ve been through it, and it’s a powerful change.

There is an incredible range of opportunities now for people to become more entrepreneurial. If you’re going to build a business to support your escape, though, it should be first and foremost because you’re passionate about building that business. It can be a lot of work, but also tremendously rewarding if it comes from a place of passion.

Some people want to go on Sabbatical without traveling. They might want to spend time with older relatives, write a novel, build a house, or get involved in a community cause. How might their situation differ from the situation of someone who wants to move abroad? Is it easer or more difficult to stay put while one sabbatical?

In a way, it’s just plain easier to stay put. There are very few unknowns other than finances. The problem is that “easy” doesn’t usually offer a high return.

You simply grow more by leaving. Staying put is just that: it’s staying put. There’s no need to travel if you’re not interested in that, but there’s a lot to be said for shaking things up. You want to write a novel? Do it somewhere else. Want to become involved with a cause? Find one that exposes you to a whole new environment while you’re at it.

That being said, there is no shortage of sabbatical ideas that don’t involve leaving home, and plenty of them can change your life. A sabbatical doesn’t have to be about travel, but the what’s critical is this: Don’t stay home without a good reason. If you find yourself with six months off and nothing to do, it’s worth shaking up your routine to the fullest extent you can. That’s where the good stuff is.

Surprisingly, it can be also be cheaper to leave. Lifestyles out side of North America can be significantly less expensive (although there are many exceptions), but even in major first world cities, a mobile lifestyle can be cheaper. As a matter of fact, Location Independent has a line-by-line cost breakdown that shows them spending less money by moving from city to city around the word – it’s a great analysis.

Your book talks about the sacrifices that you don’t have to make: you don’t have to sacrifice your career or spend your life savings. What sacrifices might you have to make? Is there a downside to going on sabbatical?

The downside is that if you’re not happy in your current life, spending a large block of time doing something you love is going to make that old life intolerable when you return to it.

In the end, though, that’s what an escape is all about – living deliberately. If a sabbatical forces you to question your current life, then I’d call that time well spent.

Of what aspect of your book are you most proud?

I’m most proud of the fact that it’s made a difference for people already. There are people out there putting it to the test, and it’s helping them plan to do things they’ve wanted to their whole lives.

We lay out some pretty clear processes in the book for escaping, and making it affordable. When people tell me, “I’ve started. I did this, or that.” I know that they’re going to make it, and it won’t be long before we’ll hear back from them saying, “Wow. This experience changed my life.”

I think the happiest people in life are those who feel they have choices. It’s been great to be able to take what I feel are the most important choices in our life, and offer them up in a way that gives other people the tools to do the same.

I’d like to thank Dan for his insightful and value-packed comments. If you liked this interview and would like to learn more, check out Dan’s website and check out the free book except, and see what others have to say about Escape 101.

Note: I have no financial affiliation with Escape 101.

Technorati Tags: miniretirements, miniretirements, Dan Clements, Escape 101, taking sabbaticals, Tara Gignac, travel, 4HWW, lifestyle design, e-book, ebook, tikal, travelling with children, Timothy Ferriss

Posted on 18 Mar, 2008

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26 Comments so far »

Keith said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:18 pm

Yes - Dan - you are right - we live in a world that is “tied” into myths and sometimes very false beliefs. It is not easy to break the chain, but it can be done. The key is to “know thyself” as Socrates once said, and as we grow in our self-confidence about our ability to deliver quality - in our chosen field - then we grow and can live that dream life we all desire. Thanks for the great article, Clay, well done! Regards, Keith Johnson, Author & Webmaster, http://www.ommeditation.info.
Dave Navarro said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:20 pm

Thanks for the interview, Clay. This book comes right when I need it - when I need to bust the myth that this has to be a “someday” goal.

I’ll be picking up the book this weekend.
-Dave
Tom Volkar / Delightful Work said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

Clay this is an exceptional interview. I especially enjoyed Dan’s list of myths that folks throw up as reasons why they cannot take a sabbatical.

I can’t afford it.
I can’t leave work.
I can’t leave my business.
I can’t do it with kids.

They made me laugh out loud because they are the same list of excuses that people give when they are challenged to leave unfulfilling employment and enjoy the independence of the self-employed. Just goes to show you that fears and excuses are universal myths that will always stop some folks from going for it.
sterling | bizlift said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

I like the emphasis on removing the psychological barriers.

The myth that you have to sacrifice your career is a big one. My fiancee is a lawyer, one of the most paper-intensive professions. We’ve used technology to allow her to work remotely for weeks at a time. Someday soon it will be months at a time.

Thanks for sharing the interview Clay.
Terry said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

Hi Dan. I think that the urge to travel, see new things, and explore the world is a very human (and essential) urge, but that the daily grind often gets in the way. I like how you’ve honored the human element in all of this. Since cubicle life is an many ways dehumanizing, it would make sense that life-affirming travel would making the work environment difficult after return. I’m off to Amazon.com…
Laurie said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 8:56 pm

What a wonderful interview! I’m so excited to read this book.

I recently caught a really horrendous interview on a podcast (the first question was the dreadful: “Tell us a little about yourself”) and your interview with Dan Clements was a breath of fresh air! Interesting, thoughtful questions that showed you did your research, a highly relevant topic for your blog, and a terrific interview subject. Great job!
Marelisa said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

It takes a lot more effort to design your life–and proceed to live that life–than it does to simply follow the path that is already nicely laid out before you. The upside of taking a risk is that it works out and you get to live the life of your dreams. The downside is that things don’t work out as you expected and your life basically collapses around you. I read somewhere that most people play not to lose, which means staying in their comfortable but stifling lives. To get up and completely change your life requires that you start playing to win. I think that reading examples of others who have done it is a great way to get motivated. This book sounds great.
Tim Brownson said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

I was reading this interview thinking “Why don’t I just give this book to my most stubborn clients who refuse to believe they can have it all and save myself a whole heap of time?”

There’s always reasons why we can’t do things and I’m excited when books like this breakthrough and tell people why they can.

Good interview.
mark @ mytropicalescape said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 9:48 pm

Hey Clay - nice job with the interview!

As someone who initially took a sabbatical (to Ecuador) over 15 years ago and then made a complete break from the cubicle, I personally believe it comes down to mindset.

Up until now I have not seen Dan (and his EXCELLENT book) or Tim Ferriss describe it this way, but removing yourself can sometimes be like divorcing a spouse. For some people they have been in their job 2, 5, or 10 years and it is tough to leave because that is how they define themselves.

Also, many people are clinging to their job (the status quo) because it provides them with a sense of security, almost like the safety of a life raft.
Ali Hale said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 9:50 pm

What a fascinating and encouraging interview! The idea of a sabbatical always seemed something “not for me” (particularly as I’m only twenty three, so haven’t exactly been grinding away in the corporate world for long…) but this has definitely made me re-consider.

I, too, like the list of myths. I think it show both how easy it is for us to block off possibilities for ourselves, and how we just need to side-step in our thinking to go round them completely.

Thank you, Clay, and Dan, for an excellent interview. I will be keeping an eye out for Escape 101.

Ali
Jonathan Mead said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

This is timely book for me, as I’m trying to transition into doing what I love every day as opposed to doing what I’ve been taught is a good idea. It’s a good idea to find security, safety, consistency, stability, that’s what we’re told. But what really matters is how it makes us feel. If we end up feeling dead and lifeless inside, what good is all the security we’ve supposedly earned? Thanks for the great article Clay, I’ll be checking out Dan’s website and looking into his book.

http://jonathanmead.com - Authenticity, Clarity, Balance
@Stephen | Productivity in Context said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 10:34 pm

Great answers to insightful questions. I am going to have to get this book! “that’s what an escape is all about - living deliberately. If a sabbatical forces you to question your current life, then I’d call that time well spent.” Indeed.
Barbara Swafford said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 10:36 pm

Congratulations Clay!

This is a great interview, as well as a great “review of sorts” of Dan’s book. You worded your questions such that Dan was allowed to expand on his answers and give us all more insight into the book.

For me, even a short road trip (without a purpose except to get out of town), helps me to “regroup”. I come home feeling refreshed and ready to dive back in.

Great job Clay. Again you confirmed my reasons for making you a NBOTW. You’ve made me proud. :)
Dan Clements said,

Wrote on March 18, 2008 @ 11:51 pm

Hi All,

I feel like I arrived late for the party. Thank you to everyone for your kind comments. And Clay - thanks to you for your insightful questions. This was a real pleasure.

It great to hear from people making the effort to live their lives on purpose. If we can help any of you out along the way, just ask.
mark @ mytropicalescape said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 12:01 am

You said, “If we can help any of you out along the way, just ask.”

Um, can I borrow five dollars I need to buy a new snow shovel ;)
Shann said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 1:26 am

Thank you for the exceptional interview and book review.

Your timing is perfect and just what I needed as I plan to take my first small sabbatical for 28 days this summer, to earn my yoga teacher training certification. My husband and daughter support me and my interest in fulfilling one of my dreams.

Life is Good!

Shann
Clay Collins said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 6:52 am

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the excellent comments. I’m really glad you enjoyed the interview and I’m grateful to you for stopping by. This was The Growing Life’s first author interview and I was very pleased with Dan’s responses. Thanks for checking out some of these travel ideas and for checking out Escape 101.

Happy sabbaticals!!

–Clay
J.D. said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 8:26 am

> the happiest people in life are those who feel they have choices
That’s so key, and it’s more perspective than circumstance.
ZHereford said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 12:56 pm

Great interview Clay!

The concept of taking a sabbatical is a wonderful way to test the waters before you make the plunge! This book couldn’t come at a better time when so many are questioning their direction and career choices.
Maria - Never the Same River Twice said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 1:34 pm

Wow. This is a great interview about a great book, Clay.

I love the emphasis on creating a catalyst for personal change that doesn’t involve a tragedy of some kind! If we all wait until we have a medical crisis to follow our dreams, we might never get the chance.

This is real food for thought.
Erek Ostrowski said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 3:35 pm

Excellent interview, Clay! I’m struck by how the mental barriers to escape are more challenging to manage than the actual logistics of escape.

I notice that my own mind is constantly generating reasons why I can’t do something like that. Doing it might not actually be all that difficult, but managing my perspective and my thinking would be critically important to pulling it off!
@Stephen | Productivity in Context said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

Hey Lex,
I still remember sitting in my Physics class where we were learning about the mathematical equations that describe the magnetic field around a straight wire carrying an electric current. The same equations describe the motion of an incompressible flow of a fluid(like water) around a curved object (like a wing).

Sounds kinda nerdy now, but I have been looking for these kinds of congruencies for the past 20 years…

Life is interesting that way.
Andrea Hess said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

Great interview and very interesting book! I’d love to hear what the author has to say about sabbaticals with toddlers in tow! That’s where I get hung up. I would love to take a month off to “just” write, for example … but I don’t think my toddler would put up with that unless she’s in daycare. And so the only sabbatical I could imagine would be one at home, where there’s still laundry, and dinner to cook, and cleaning, etc. Not much of a sabbatical away from “it all!”

Any ideas?

Blessings,
Andrea
Dan Clements said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 8:21 pm

@Andrea: Thanks for the question - it’s a good one.

Ironically, this is yet another example of a time when leaving home to do something that you could do without leaving home puts you further ahead.

We wrote most of the draft manuscript for Escape 101 in Paraguay, SA. Our daughter was five on that sabbatical. If we hadn’t left, the book would still be unfinished.

What made it work? We had this very broad set of requirements for our escape, and as few deal-breakers as possible. We weren’t fixated on a particular country, but we did want to dust off some Spanish, and expose Eve to a new language. One of the few non-negotiables, though, was that there had to be other children around.

That focus made all the difference. It meant that there were always playmates, and other parents nearby. Essentially, it helped to replicate a lot of the support network most families have in place in their day-to-day lives to manage the logistics of raising happy kids and staying sane.

At the same time, though, by leaving home, you remove your job, your commute, your distractions of everyday life, and you create this this unprogrammed, uncommitted time to do what’s important. For us that was helping others, reconnecting as a family, and writing. By leaving home, we ended up with time to do it all, and then some.

Here’s the thing: Sometimes accomplishing what you want isn’t about becoming hyper-productive or super-effective, or about GTD, or any of those things. It’s just about having less other stuff to do. It’s about wading out into a new, clear, unobstructed place where life isn’t yelling at you all the time.

Sometimes it’s just about leaving.
@Stephen | Productivity in Context said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

Precisely. Just as being “capital-p” Productive is about being done, not just getting things done.
Your productivity practice needs to include time for you to get away, to recharge your batteries and re-connect with your inner self as well as your loved ones.

I am so going to start reading this book!
Lex G said,

Wrote on March 19, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

Good interview … Well formulated questions and fun to read …

Reading the answers only already gives me the good feeling motivation ;) Maybe that’s because I’ve been trying to ’shift’ my ‘career’ as such that I am as free as possible …

Honestly, I don’t ever read books anymore, but this one I might actually go get …

B.t.w.
The myths reminded me of my management course in college which dealt partly with ‘how to accept help employees adapt to a change of situation …’. They usually go through a number of standard phases before actually making / accepting changes, whether self initiated or started by someone else.

It’s also amazing how standard models which we are educated about actually shine trough in multiple other areas of life …